Curse

ZenRgy · Aug 18, 2006, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Fire - AoE Damage
Earth - Defense
Air - Concentrated damage
water - To disable the enemy / distract enemy

LightningHell · Aug 18, 2006, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Cooper

are you kidding me? ive taken out numerous warriors and assassins 1 on 1 in AB and arenas. saying an ele cant take down a warrior is just plain ignorant.

You mean warriors that carry Mending, Healing Breeze, Bonneti's Defense, Dolyak Signet, Riposte, Power Attack, Live Vicariously, and the godly Healing Hands?

And by Assassins you mean ones that use a wand and Critical Strikes for 00ber wand damage?

An assassin can kill any caster in five, max six-seven seconds. A precharged warrior can do it in less. Don't believe me, press "B" on the Guild Wars client, or just...try playing against real assassins/warriors.

Lord Cooper · Aug 18, 2006, 10:47 AM // 10:47

no im not talking about noob warrior/assassins. snares hexes wards etc etc all combine to level the field quite nicely. im not sure how you play your ele but if you cant at least hold your ground agaisnt other professions maybe you should look at your build/skills? only an idiot ele will let a melee class character close on him and attack him unhindered which is why you will always find a snare and probably a hex in my PvP builds.

the only concession i will make to my previous post is that an ele may need a slighly more focused build

but we are getting off topic here. i believe the original question is which element does the most damage. the answer is that it is very situational. it depends on your opponent and whether you are facing a mob, single targets or monsters with a stupidly high AL

LightningHell · Aug 18, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Cooper

no im not talking about noob warrior/assassins. snares hexes wards etc etc all combine to level the field quite nicely. im not sure how you play your ele but if you cant at least hold your ground agaisnt other professions maybe you should look at your build/skills? only an idiot ele will let a melee class character close on him and attack him unhindered which is why you will always find a snare and probably a hex in my PvP builds.

the only concession i will make to my previous post is that an ele may need a slighly more focused build

but we are getting off topic here. i believe the original question is which element does the most damage. the answer is that it is very situational. it depends on your opponent and whether you are facing a mob, single targets or monsters with a stupidly high AL

Yes, we are getting off topic, but...only an idiot warrior will not be able to kill an ele one on one after a few minutes. I have Blinding Flash and Gale in my build, but I can't shut him down forever.

The best element depends on what you're aiming to do.

Lord Cooper · Aug 18, 2006, 12:50 PM // 12:50

we all have different builds and im not trying to rubbish yours but the way i see it is you have your snares and hexes to buy youself the space and time to kill your opponent.

anyway lets not derail this topic any further if you wish to continue discussing this drop me a pm

Jahuta · Aug 18, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

[QUOTE=LightningHell]So, you get near, cast AoE, get stripped, cast Teinai's Crystals/Crystal Wave, wait for that 20 recharge, and spam obsidian flame in the process, not to mention getting killed four seconds later. And getting resurrected with a full bar of exhaustion.

QUOTE]

No, I don;t rush up with Crystal spells. In fact, I don't even use them. And stripped of what? I have only one enchant on my bar to avoid things like that. The ONLY exhaustion spells I use are Dragons Stomp and Obsidian Flame. My main focus is echoing Unsteady Ground.

zling · Aug 19, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Elementalists arent such bad damage dealers, compared mainly to warriors, as Ensign and many others say.
take an Elementalist who just spams flare/ice spear/shock arrow or even better, stone daggers compared to a warrior spamming power attack or weapon based adrenaline skills.
assuming weapon and element attributes are both maxed. flare and ice spear will deal around 60 damage while shock arrow will deal around 40 while stone daggers will deal the same amount but ignoring target's armor completely and shock arrow that will deal only around 45 but will also penetrate 25% of the target's armor. all of which have 1 sec cast time with 1 sec cool down or not at all will deal around that much while ignoring armor completely. while a Warrior will deal the extra 20-30 with power attack. but the weapon damage isnt stable. the max, including the attack skill for swords/axes will be around 65 and for hammers around 75(with slower attack speed) that is without including armor at all. it is true that a warrior can use an attack speed boosting skill to make the numbers more impressive but so can the Elementalist to some extent, especially with the Mesmer as secondary profession.
that is just with spammable 5 energy spells/skills. you can compare higher energy spells to adrenaline weapon attacks and the results wont be too different. and neither are spammable.

as for a 1v1 Warrior vs Elementalist, I put all my money on the Elementalist...
start with casting your dual attunements than cast either iron mist(and risk it being removed by holy veil/any other hex removal) or carry 2 water snares such as deep freeze and ice prison and risk both of them being removed by 2 seperate skills... than follow with glyph of elemental power(if using iron mist)->Orb->Strike->Enervating to deal the first "spike" and also weaken the Warrior incase it gets in melee range, which shouldnt happen, at least not so fast. than you gale the warrior to give yourself a nice 3 second time frame in which the Warrior cant do anything, not even move towards you. you follow with blinding flash(yes its wasting 3 seconds of the blind but allows weakness to cover blind and not the other way around) and repeat the process. recast the dual attunements a bit before they expire and when you have time and iron mist whenever its recharged
as for weapons, 20/20 air wand + 20/20 air offhand, a 20/20 airstaff with 20% enchanting mod and preferably +5 energy, and a 20/20 earth wand + 20%/20% recharge/+1 earth offhand

now, it doesnt matter what the Warrior brings, it wont get the chance to use whatever he has, just stances and shouts which wont help him too much and maybe pull of some cast heal/rof once in a while if Wammo, or if the Warrior is very smart he'll take Mesmer as secondary, and than will cast elemental resistence or even better, mantra of lightning and carry a drain enchantment as well, and/or perhaps balanced stance. or at least have ward of stability as an Elementalist secondary but than sacrificing the drain enchantment and limiting the knockdown immunity to ward range.

now, for the best case scenario, assuming the Warrior did bring balanced stance, he should have around 10 seconds of moving at full speed but being blinded and weakened. assuming the Warrior used Mesmer as his secondary he can switch between elemental resistence/mantra of lightning and balanced stance and perhaps sprint while risking being galed while switching out balanced stance but absorbing a lot of the air damage against him. anyway in those 10 seconds the Warrior can get in melee range, especially with sprint and catch thin air 90% of the time(blind) and on the 10% that he hits the Elementalist his damage is reduced(weakness) than the Elementalist casts iron mist or gale if not in balanced stance and takes his distance again. the Warrior can dream about building up adrenaline for some serious damage and cant rely on his interrupts to interrupt the next iron mist/gale due to blindness.
so the Warrior is basically a sitting duck. thanks to his high armor and perhaps Mesmer stances he can survive a few "spikes" but eventually he will break, without much time to heal himself and close the distance.

if the Warrior picked Monk as his secondary and has balanced stance things will be a little different. the Warrior gets in balanced stance, than runs towards the Elementalist with sprint being used rarely. if he is a smart Wammo he will also carry holy veil/another hex removal or both(very unlikely) and remove iron mist and run freely. now all he needs is purge/mend condition+ailment(to remove blind as well as weakness) and than deal damage until being knocked down

conclusion: assuming the best case scenario the Warrior has a very small chance to beat the Elementalist otherwise his chances are 0
and that is taking into consideration a basic aeromancer build and not something less vulnerable to hex removal such as switching Elemental Attunement to Gust for an additional exhaustion free 3 second knock down(assuming some speed debuff is cast on the target already) or using hydromancer with some Mesmer interrupts which will leave the Warrior 0 chance of getting near the Elementalist.

Ensign · Aug 19, 2006, 01:58 AM // 01:58

I think the warrior Gale's down your Iron Mist, Healsigs through your damage, and kills you with bleeding and hits that slip through blind.

That's my experience with that sort of matchup at least. The Iron Mist is the only interesting kink, really, and you might live another minute because of it. Otherwise you're in the world of 'Galed when blind expires, sever, deep wound, die.

Peace,
-CxE

LightningHell · Aug 19, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

while stone daggers will deal the same amount but ignoring target's armor completely

I'll finish reading your post later on, but this is hilarious. XD

EDIT: And some more:

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

now, it doesnt matter what the Warrior brings, it wont get the chance to use whatever he has, just stances and shouts which wont help him too much and maybe pull of some cast heal/rof once in a while if Wammo, or if the Warrior is very smart he'll take Mesmer as secondary, and than will cast elemental resistence or even better, mantra of lightning and carry a drain enchantment as well, and/or perhaps balanced stance. or at least have ward of stability as an Elementalist secondary but than sacrificing the drain enchantment and limiting the knockdown immunity to ward range.

if the Warrior picked Monk as his secondary and has balanced stance things will be a little different. the Warrior gets in balanced stance, than runs towards the Elementalist with sprint being used rarely. if he is a smart Wammo he will also carry holy veil/another hex removal or both(very unlikely) and remove iron mist and run freely. now all he needs is purge/mend condition+ailment(to remove blind as well as weakness) and than deal damage until being knocked down

conclusion: assuming the best case scenario the Warrior has a very small chance to beat the Elementalist otherwise his chances are 0
and that is taking into consideration a basic aeromancer build and not something less vulnerable to hex removal such as switching Elemental Attunement to Gust for an additional exhaustion free 3 second knock down(assuming some speed debuff is cast on the target already) or using hydromancer with some Mesmer interrupts which will leave the Warrior 0 chance of getting near the Elementalist.

Let me ask, are you typing a joke post or are you completely ignorant of Iron Mist's recharge time, your energy being depleted because of the Warrior's almost constant stream of damage, and the warrior's uncanny ability to healsig?

zling · Aug 19, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I'll finish reading your post later on, but this is hilarious. XD

EDIT: And some more:

Let me ask, are you typing a joke post or are you completely ignorant of Iron Mist's recharge time, your energy being depleted because of the Warrior's almost constant stream of damage, and the warrior's uncanny ability to healsig?

I included iron mist's recharge in the calcs, what part of gale and blinding flash didnt you understand? the whole point of iron mist is to buy you some time to deal "free" damage while the Warrior wont waste much time using healing signet, and if he does he pays for it dearly, -40 armor against a powered(glyph of elemental power) lightning strike followed by orb and enervating will be fatal. not to mention that healing signet be galed very easily if you really want to...

and Ensign, your case will be a W/E vs E/x. so basically the Warrior has no condition removal at all, so the Warrior is basically blinded all the time... he also doesnt have any enchantment removal so the Elementalist is dual attuned all the time and thus can keep spamming his spells without limits besides exhaustion.
and please, dont give me the galing exuse, I dare a Warrior to go into a gale fight with a dual attuned Elementalist... a blind Warrior gales the Elementalist, gets in melee range, misses all of his attacks, Elementalist gets back up, gales the Warrior and puts blind again, either takes his distance with iron mist or just spikes the Warrior. without the ability to remove blind and without enough energy to spam gale, exhaustion will kill the Warrior much faster than it will kill the Elementalist.

zling · Aug 19, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I'll finish reading your post later on, but this is hilarious. XD

EDIT: And some more:

Let me ask, are you typing a joke post or are you completely ignorant of Iron Mist's recharge time, your energy being depleted because of the Warrior's almost constant stream of damage, and the warrior's uncanny ability to healsig?

I included iron mist's recharge in the calcs, what part of gale and blinding flash didnt you understand? the whole point of iron mist is to buy you some time to deal "free" damage while the Warrior wont waste much time using healing signet, and if he does he pays for it dearly, -40 armor against a powered(glyph of elemental power) lightning strike followed by orb and enervating will be fatal. not to mention that healing signet be galed very easily if you really want to...

and Ensign, your case will be a W/E vs E/x. so basically the Warrior has no condition removal at all, so the Warrior is basically blinded all the time... he also doesnt have any enchantment removal so the Elementalist is dual attuned all the time and thus can keep spamming his spells without limits besides exhaustion.
and please, dont give me the galing exuse, I dare a Warrior to go into a gale fight with a dual attuned Elementalist... a blind Warrior gales the Elementalist, gets in melee range, misses all of his attacks, Elementalist gets back up, gales the Warrior and puts blind again, either takes his distance with iron mist or just spikes the Warrior. without the ability to remove blind and without enough energy to spam gale, exhaustion will kill the Warrior much faster than it will kill the Elementalist.

LightningHell · Aug 20, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

I included iron mist's recharge in the calcs, what part of gale and blinding flash didnt you understand? the whole point of iron mist is to buy you some time to deal "free" damage while the Warrior wont waste much time using healing signet, and if he does he pays for it dearly, -40 armor against a powered(glyph of elemental power) lightning strike followed by orb and enervating will be fatal. not to mention that healing signet be galed very easily if you really want to...

and Ensign, your case will be a W/E vs E/x. so basically the Warrior has no condition removal at all, so the Warrior is basically blinded all the time... he also doesnt have any enchantment removal so the Elementalist is dual attuned all the time and thus can keep spamming his spells without limits besides exhaustion.
and please, dont give me the galing exuse, I dare a Warrior to go into a gale fight with a dual attuned Elementalist... a blind Warrior gales the Elementalist, gets in melee range, misses all of his attacks, Elementalist gets back up, gales the Warrior and puts blind again, either takes his distance with iron mist or just spikes the Warrior. without the ability to remove blind and without enough energy to spam gale, exhaustion will kill the Warrior much faster than it will kill the Elementalist.

Kite.

EDIT: Healing Signet will be gone by the time you finish Orb.

Lord Cooper · Aug 21, 2006, 01:48 PM // 13:48

true but any warrior who uses heal signet near me gets ice spears spammed in his face

LightningHell · Aug 21, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Cooper

true but any warrior who uses heal signet near me gets ice spears spammed in his face

Warriors can kite too you know, and cancel skills.

And why on earth are you bringing Ice Spears out anyway?

Trylo · Aug 22, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58

who uses air anymore? a mesmer could outdamage an ele in no time...

Earth doesnt deal consistent damage but spikes, IF you get close enough. they deal nice damage, (100+), but have this atrocious 1.75sec aftercast. so stop arguing that crystal wave is good, plus it still can be sigged away, its not like they take double damage. im still laughing at the 'fatal' part of a lightning orb. if your kiting, chances are a war is following you, and if hes smart he will be zigzaging while you waste your 2 secs casting, then he might use a heal sig, IF you get a strike in it wont do more than 100 damage. i have done 260 from an orb to a heal sig war, BUT WHO IS STUPID ENOUGH to not cancel heal sig before the 2 secs are up? very bad players. you will run out of energy and fast, any good war who knows hes 1v1 ing a ele will bring mend condition or at least purge. and he can also charge all his skills and release them all during a 5 sec span. dead ele.

doesnt ice spear kinda defeat the point of kiting (if you dont get this, someone else explain cause im not gunna sit here helping thse people anymore)

LightningHell · Aug 22, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

doesnt ice spear kinda defeat the point of kiting (if you dont get this, someone else explain cause im not gunna sit here helping thse people anymore)

I think you mean Water Trident.

Lord Cooper · Aug 22, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Warriors can kite too you know, and cancel skills.

And why on earth are you bringing Ice Spears out anyway?

because you brought up a "warriors uncanny ability to heal signet". i just wantd to point out that using heal signet in front of a water ele is a surprisingly bad idea

i know warriors can kite and cancel skills and the good ones very often do which is where my snares come into play and if i can pump even just 1 ice spear into a heal signet then ive done significant damage and forced him to waste his heal

by the way we eles can kite to and there is no way im going to stand in front of a warrior and let him unload a full chain of skills on me.. he will be snared and hexed with blurred vision before he gets close giving me chance to get safe and unload a few of my skills on him. its very much a game of cat and mouse. the professions themselves are balanced i think its just the skill of the players that decide the victor as with any class.

LightningHell · Aug 22, 2006, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Cooper

because you brought up a "warriors uncanny ability to heal signet". i just wantd to point out that using heal signet in front of a water ele is a surprisingly bad idea

i know warriors can kite and cancel skills and the good ones very often do which is where my snares come into play and if i can pump even just 1 ice spear into a heal signet then ive done significant damage and forced him to waste his heal

by the way we eles can kite to and there is no way im going to stand in front of a warrior and let him unload a full chain of skills on me.. he will be snared and hexed with blurred vision before he gets close giving me chance to get safe and unload a few of my skills on him. its very much a game of cat and mouse. the professions themselves are balanced i think its just the skill of the players that decide the victor as with any class.

What skills you unload will kill him? I dare ask.

Blurred Vision and Blinding Flash don't kill.

A warrior has the ability to healsig, and a warrior has the ability to cancel it too.

Lord Cooper · Aug 22, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

echo'd vapor blades.. ice spear ice spikes deepfreeze etc etc

LightningHell · Aug 23, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Cooper

echo'd vapor blades.. ice spear ice spikes deepfreeze etc etc

How do you kill the warrior?

*Shakes head*